If your life depends on it, what kind of ammo should you use? Hollow Points or Full Metal Jacket? Find out the difference and our recommendations for the best defensive ammo for each caliber.
Nothing will make up for shooting skill…
If you don’t hit your target it won’t matter if you were using the Golden Gun and firing depleted uranium rounds – you still missed. But that doesn’t mean what you shoot isn’t important.
There’s an unwritten rule of firearm ammunition: use hollow points for your carry/home defense guns and use full-metal jacket (FMJ) for practice.
This is mainly due to the fact that FMJ rounds are significantly cheaper than your average hollow point.
It’s also due to the fact that, from a “put the attacker down” point of view, FMJ rounds aren’t exactly ideal.
9mm 115 gr Federal FMJ vs 124 gr Federal Hydrashok, Top
That’s not to say that FMJ rounds are useless for defense.
Far from it, in fact.
Most NATO militaries use only FMJ rounds. This is due to an international treaty that was signed many years ago that forbids the use of expanding rounds. That same treaty also bans the dropping of grenades from hot air balloons, mind you, so some of the stuff might be outdated in the grand scheme of things.
However, the USA never ratified that section of the treaty…and the US Army just recently adopted hollow point ammo along with the new Sig Sauer M17 pistol.
But I digress, the FMJ is still a bullet and will still punch a hole in your average bad guy. Stories of people “shrugging off” FMJ rounds because they “just passed right through” are rare and often exaggerated.
So Why Do We Use Hollow Points Then?
Ballistics Gel Testing, Lucky Gunner
While a full metal jacket round will still drop a bad guy, a hollow point will do it just a little bit better. That’s not to say there aren’t all kinds of misconceptions about hollow points as well. What I want to do today is talk about both rounds and touch on the misconceptions of both.
Or if you’re ready…check out our Ammo & Reloading Definitive Guide for our favorite ammo picks for common calibers.
Full Metal Jacket
A full metal jacket round, as we talked about in our Basic Bullet Guide, is a soft lead bullet that’s been encased in a harder metal.
When passing through soft tissue and other stuff, the bullet retains the majority of its shape. The upside of this is that, in theory, it has an easier time retaining its lethality after passing through a barrier among other things. It also has an easier time working in almost any gun you put it in.
The main thing, however, is that it’s just far cheaper to manufacture FMJ ammo.
FMJ Cut
So why does FMJ ammo have that “less lethal than hollow point” thing associated with it?
It comes down to physics…
Because the bullet is just passing through, for lack of a better term, it retains a great deal of its energy. This ultimately results in 2 small holes (entrance and exit wound) and also allows the bullet to possibly continue on for a long time and hit something you don’t want it to.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want 2 small holes punched in me and I don’t think anyone else does either.
It’s a safe bet that anyone, and I do mean anyone who says that a person could just shrug off a shot from an FMJ round (or a given caliber) would not be willing to stand downrange of said caliber and attempt to shrug it off.
That being said, what about the common alternative?
Hollow Points
Take an FMJ round, then drill a hole in the tip. Hey look, the point of the bullet is now hollow. I wonder what we could call it…
Ok, it’s a bit more involved than putting a hole in a round with a drill press but still.
That hole is there to create a weakness.
Overhead Hollow Point Comparison, ar15.com Molon
That weakness causes resistance when it hits something squishy and that resistance causes the bullet to start expanding. That expansion is the key point.
Remember Newton’s Law: energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred. With the expansion, the majority of the energy from the shot gets dissipated into the thing what you shot.
Ideally, this results in a much larger wound cavity and no exit wounds meaning the bullet stops inside the body. Chance being what it is, that doesn’t always happen exactly as planned but there it is.
147 Federal HST Expansion
To finish up here, I want to take a moment to explain what a hollow point isn’t.
First off, it’s not some magical death talisman. Aside from how Hollywood likes to portray them, the person isn’t going to go flying across a room if you so much as graze their shoulder. All it means is that this bullet is going to impact a bit harder and probably not punch all the way through someone. If it does go through, it’s probably not going to have much power after that.
It’s also not a “cop killer” round as some like to paint it. Even low-end body armor is far more likely to stop a hollow point than it will an FMJ round.
Finally, barriers and such aren’t going to affect hollow points as much as you would think.
First off, they need a great deal of resistance to expand which the momentary contact with a barrier just isn’t enough to cause. Mind you, it will start to expand in most cases but they’re made to fully expand via soft tissue contact. Secondly, most hollow point rounds made in the USA are meant to satisfy the FBI Ballistic Test requirements.
They’re pretty extensive so I’ll just give you the Reader’s Digest version: gel penetration of a minimum of 12 to 18 inches through bare gel, heavy clothing, steel, wallboard, plywood, and glass.
5 Shots into Ballistic Gel
Conclusion
Like I said in the beginning…FMJ for practice and hollow points for everyday carry and such.
Does that mean you should never practice with hollow points?
Heck no!
You need to know how your gun is going to react with that ammunition. Guns don’t always like every bit of ammo you feed it. Put at least a box or two through your gun when practicing but, beyond that, save yourself the money at the range.
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48
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The Truth
The fact that this is even a conversation in today’s world is laughable and pathetic. JHP are more lethal and better than FMJ for self defense END OF STORY. Anyone in this comment section or the world who thinks otherwise is an idiot and has no business carrying a firearm. Even though it’s not the majority, the fact that there is a sizable amount of people in today’s world that carry FMJ over JHP shows how much stupidity and ignorance there is in the gun community, especially when all the empirical data says otherwise. A JHP has way less chance of passing through and hitting an innocent bystander and as explained in this article will create a bigger wound channel causing more damage/bleeding, and will put a would-be attacker down quicker and more efficiently. A lot of people in this comment section and the gun community need to educate themselves because an FMJ will always be inferior to a JHP for self-defense and the only people that carry FMJ as far as I’m concerned are broke/cheap asses who don’t wanna spend the money for a quality JHP. Great article by the author and hopefully the knuckleheads listen and carry JHP for self-defense and keep the FMJ on the target range where it belongs.
August 10, 2023 12:19 pm
Jack Sparrow
Yes, but FMJs are so much cheaper than hollow point. I don't think there's truly anyone out there that thinks that FMJs are better. It's just all people can afford, but especially these days when we're in an economic recession.
June 8, 2024 2:52 am
Bfm
Lousy definition of FMJ vs Hollow points. Never addressed the ergonomic and nuts and bolts.
May 12, 2022 1:50 pm
InGodwetrust
The Article was written for the new guys to carrying(including me) Write your own if this isn’t good enough for you.
December 11, 2022 5:45 am
Jerm
Was just fine
February 24, 2023 10:32 pm
JAY H DAVIS
I use full metal jacket ammunition for personal protection in my 45 and 9mm. I have two reasons. First, the FMJ rounds provide a more reliable feed in my two carry firearms. I want my semi-automatic to be semi-automatic, not manually operated. Second, they do, in tests I have seen and tests I have conducted, provide better penetration. The bullet has to reach the vitals (heart, brain, lungs), or at least break bones (spine, thigh, or humerus for example) that will incapacitate an assailant.
January 22, 2022 11:48 am
David Mcpherson
Thank you, for your info. I recently purchased a Taurus "2 matte blk Carbon steel Taurus 38 snub nose and have it loaded presently loaded with fmg bronze 38 special ammunition. I appreciate it.
June 11, 2022 4:41 pm
Michael Powell
Thanks for this article!
December 20, 2021 11:58 am
Mike Drake
If hollow points are so great why dont big game hunters use them?
September 27, 2021 4:52 am
Domino
I would imagine because hollow points are designed to penetrate human skin, which is relatively thin compared so something like a hog, or moose, or elk, or….. well, you get the idea. Against thicker skinned game, penetration and expansion could become an issue.
January 22, 2022 8:49 am
Jackson
Hollow points dump energy quickly. Does more damage and bullet stops quicker not going through the target and worrying about what is behind it. When hunting big game, you are not worried about what's behind the shot. You also don't want to tear up the meat. Hollow points, much larger wound cavity. Typically big game uses soft point bullets which is balance mid range expansion and going through tougher skin.
April 20, 2023 3:21 am
David Deane
I'm not a gun guy, I'm just interested in the science behind Many things.
Thank you for this informative article written from a very neutral POV.
August 19, 2021 9:03 am
Corn Pop
Do you mean to tell me that A "Full Metal Jacket" is not a a type of clothing that Knights use to wear during the middle ages?
December 14, 2020 5:31 pm
Jay Davis
I use FMJ ammo in my .380, 9 mm and .45. Why? Because I've found the ones I use to be the most reliable feeding rounds in my pistols. To date, I haven't had to use any of my pistols for self defense, but I do want it to reliably feed that second (or third or fourth, or whatever it takes) round. Clearing a jam when my life depends on it is not something I want to have to do.
September 4, 2020 2:55 pm
rob
I've been shot with 9 mm 115gr FMJ. While it was just a flesh wound, it felt like getting hit with a hammer full force. I was still able to function just fine, It didn't hurt from the adrenaline. When I got worked on, I started feeling it, but by that time I was pumped full of dilated. .... LONG STORY SHORT.. FMJ is effective only in effective locations. If I put two rounds in your chest and one in your head. You wont know the difference
July 21, 2020 1:41 pm
a3m3
This may seem like an easy answer but would you train with the same grain weight you carry? How much different would 124gr fmj handle compared to 124gr jhp? Not saying I'd never shot jhp's but if FMJ is half the cost (or less) does using the same grain weight help?
June 24, 2020 5:54 am
Sneaker chewer, not eater.
It’s good to know very few people are as well trained as CAG. They’d be deadly if only given blue darts.
March 31, 2020 10:36 am
JM
It seems pretty clear that if we’re talking about shooting soft tissue, and inflicting max damage while minimizing over penetration, clearly hollow points are superior. Not to say that under certain circumstances maybe a FMJ might have been more suited-ie, heavy clothing, longer range, barriers, etc. Unfortunately,, none of us knows in advance the barriers we may encounter, the exact circumstances, or the wardrobe choices of our potential aggressor. So as a general rule, for CC, HP is best- assuming you’ve tested your weapon with them and it works flawlessly. Anyone saying FMJ rounds are ineffective is a fool. I’ve seen what FMJ rounds do to a persons body, and it’s not anything anyone would be able to ignore or fight through, atleast without substantially decreased effectiveness. But given the choice, for CC, I’d generally go w HP-max wound channel for quicker knockdown.
January 8, 2020 6:43 pm
SJ
Hornady fixed that years ago with the poly insert. Gives FMJ performance and feed characteristics with forced hollowpoint performance - can't be clogged by clothing and such. Critical Defense for short barrels (tested thru a 3" barrel) and Critical Duty for full-sized. zMy local PD carries Critical Duty...
April 11, 2020 3:02 am
JukeBox
Oh come on...I have seen dozens of movies where the hero gets shot in the shoulder, the most complex joint in the body, with almost full use of his arm within the same hour. You know they aren't that bad!
June 8, 2020 4:42 pm
BC
For self-defense, you can't beat a Hallow Point. However, if your gun dislikes Hallow Points, then full metal jackets are the way to go. Full metal jackets cost less for practice. There is no difference when shooting practice and self-defense. There is better penetration, and they will get the job done. However, always be aware of what lies beyond your target because there's a greater chance for a through-and-through. My Glock 27 hates Hallow Points. Therefore, I use FMJ's a lot, and I've never had a problem handling issues. The only useless gun and ammo is the one left at home locked away in the gun safe.
November 15, 2019 9:21 am
Ryder
I'm amazed you managed to misspell 'hollow' three times. Secondly, I haven't ever been in a self-defense situation, but I feel as if your comment saying: "There is no difference when shooting practice and self-defense." is just a completely false statement. When practicing you are afforded the luxury of taking time to get on target, standing still (or whatever drills you like to do), and fire your weapon. After it's all done you sit there and reload your magazines while laughing and having a good time with your buddies. That's simply not reality when it comes to self-defense and you have adrenaline rushing as well as several racing thoughts.
April 8, 2020 5:14 pm
K
I dont think he meant "practice vs self defense" in reference to behavior...Hes speaking about practice rounds (FMJ) vs self defense rounds (hollow points)
April 9, 2020 3:12 pm
Bobo
My last thought...I've never found a bullet I want to be on the receiving end of.
November 11, 2019 1:38 am
Bobo
I will say this.... a hollowpoint has a better chance of snagging on the lip of a feed ramp. That goes the same for flat FMJ. Now I've put thousands if not hundreds of thousands downrange... an FMJ has its advantages when it comes to barriers and armor or deep penetration...even making two holes, but Hollowpoint can make a hole twice its size, drop more kinetic energy, and make less worry of the person behind the target... What I know is they both have a purpose and both have similar but different skill sets. Both are effective...and both do a job. For me though its FMJ all the way. Over penetration in pistol cal shouldn't be much if a concern (CQ Rifle is different). And I prefer a reliable always make a hole solution, even if it may not be the most ideal for some situations.
November 11, 2019 1:07 am
Pito Perez
I disagree the Military use FMJ because of the Hauge and Geneve agreements, actually the USA never signed these agreements yet the armed forces use FMJ and let me explain why. FMJ has better penetration than HP; thus, in a gun fight, it is esier to hit a penson hiding behind a car's door or other type of barriers, even FMJ cause more damage when aperson is using an armor vest. Better penetration help pass through more layers of clothes and reach vital organs, including the spinal cord, in which case the person will fall right on the spot. FMJ have better accuracy than HP and a hit is a lot better than a miss. The military know all the benefits of FMJ, that is why they preferr it over HP, not becasuse the agreements I mentioned, so trust the experts and tho not the ammo companies that just want your money.
October 13, 2019 1:27 am
Erica
I’ve carried ball hollow points are both legal , only one tho g matters. Shot placement shot placement SHOT PLACEMENT ! I do find ball to be more accreted don’t get me wrong t as well hollow points leave larger holes and wind tracts So spend the money buy all the different brands of hollow points from. Blazer liberty is a very accurate. Round. I attribute. To its speed they shoot very well from my para ordnance ported made in Canada and x3 mod2 shoots them well toon have some 90s hornady +p that is too hot and all I’ve the place goes through 2 filled 5 gallon jugs and a Birmingham phone book ! Just my 2’ cents. Also unless they fixed it the Golden
Saber loses its jacket, black talons and I know they have made better , liberty civil defence Goes about 1/2 to 3/4 into you amd acts like a grenade! Black talons although old school open CONSISTENTLY AND EVERY TIME ! I time to time load them but never chamber one to prevent nose shoving up and increasing pressures. So my warning shot is always ball ammo them my first shot would be if that terrible moment happens in my life. I’m sure it will be different than tv . But I do refuse to be a victim !!!!!!!
June 7, 2019 12:11 am
Howie Felterhoof
Get training
September 29, 2019 1:23 am
Bobo
I had issues with .40 original black talons. Even with polished feed ramps they would sometimes snag which made their expansion/ripping attributes worthless. The 9mm didn't as much, but the .40s were unusually bad at this...never tried the new rangers though. Now as far as civil liberties...they haven't jammed much in my 9mm glock. At rifle speeds they are fabulous on soft light targets. With a layer of tshirt the light tangible does incredible damage, but with any cover or light armor they are useless. It's why I personally choose m/39b or 124gr fmj. I know I can always rely on them.
November 11, 2019 1:20 am
Bobo
Also what's a warning shot...you must watch too many movies. If your gun is drawn..its on target and firing...
November 11, 2019 1:24 am
Master Bob
Im in Brasil and I use .40 of the only manufacturer of ammo here.
FMJ gave me 2 FTF after 150 rounds ( even with polished ramps!).
JHP never gave me problems, I fired 200 rounds and not one misfire.
Use what you want, but practice on the range first.
September 22, 2021 10:03 am
Mdnypd
As a former NYPD officer and I came across two suspects who are both shot with a 9 mm FMJ. One had three shots to the stomach area and buttocks station telling me he been shot. The second was a gentleman who shot 19 times with a 9 mm FMJ and still continue to resist with his AR 15. I’ve been shot at many a times with a 9 mm and it did not puncture my squad windshield. I can say with a high degree of certainty fmj rounds do not have any purpose for use in the field.
June 25, 2018 4:49 pm
Youhavenoideawhatyouretalkingabout
I call BS on your story and I also call BS on your claim that 9mm never punctured your windshield. Caliber and bullet type wars are meaningless for handgun platforms and no matter how many times even the ammo manufacturers try telling us this (based on, you know, decades of testing with millions of shots fired and extensive analysis of FBI statistics) we still have ignorant chumps like you spreading misinformation and stories.
July 26, 2019 1:10 pm
Brian N Johanson
What do you know? ...I think, if anything, this illustrates different experiences, different results, via different situations (venue, weather, garments being worn, AOA, etc., etc. etc.). To declare somebody else is full of it despite years of his own experience ought to have you consider versus judge folks, and finally, it is actually YOU, these self-proclaimed, one-stop-shop-providers that are dangerous to the field as the affects of these conditions are so dynamic, with countless "what ifs", that anyone that thinks they have digital knowledge via granularity like this ought to be shunned and dismissed at the onset...
November 10, 2019 5:59 am
Bobo
Guessing and hoping you never run into an M39/b.
November 11, 2019 1:30 am
jp
Well I don't have any experience with my 9mm, I have some experience with firearms because I have hunted since I was 12 and have tried all the different big game animal hunts in my state which we only have moose, white tailed deer, black bear, and here they classify wild turkeys as big game too.
I also hunt cotton tailed rabbits, and ruffed grouse. Any ways I have seen a lot of results from different kinds of bullets from different kinds and calibers of guns. Shot placement is the number 1 thing people should be worried about. If those gentlemen had been hit in a vital area they wouldn't have been there. Not that I would carry fmj but a fmj in the head would be deadly.
September 8, 2023 10:10 pm
Viictor
If you want to stop a threat with your gun, you need to follow some steps, The shot placement is the first thing that have to think about. The second is tears much tissues as you can, to increase the chance to cause internal bleeding and dropping the blood pressure quickly or hit on CNS. A gun fight probably will not happend in the ideal conditions, because the threat may be on the side, with arm in front of his chest, may be behind a car door or window and wearing heavy clothes. So in my opnion, FMJ is better, because it will penetrate these objects in almost all cases and it will still hit the body.. On the other hand, hollow points may not expand in all cases and it will work as a bad fmj, or it may expand early and not have enough penetration to cause as many tissue tears as possible. But if you find a hollow point ammunition that expands in any kind of situation with absolute certainty, use it. But since I don't know anything like that, I prefer FMJ. Even if the fmj ammunition goes beyond the threat, which is unlikely, and hit someone, the energy is so small that at most it will scratch the skin. Hit the shots is better than worrying if you will use HP or FMJ, because if you think about the collateral damage that will cause if it does not hit the threat, this concern will also exist with HP ammunition. Dr Vicent Di Maio and Dr Martin Flacker have said they have never seen any cases where the victim was killed with HP ammo that would not be killed either by FMJ ammo. The truth is that companies make commercial advertisements for HP ammo as if they were magic or as if they were the best solution, they make beautiful, personalized boxes and sell something that promises to be infallible. The great truth is that they are more expensive, generate more profits and that lay public buy without thinking twice.
June 14, 2018 9:39 pm
Dan
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The action is shooting the gun. The force of the bullet hitting the target will be equal to, or more likely, less than the recoil of the gun. There isn't going to be as much energy being transferred to the target as people think.. Most damage will be caused by the holes made by the bullets as opposed to the force transference. HP bullets will transfer a bit more power to the target by increased friction and expanding the force of the shot over a greater diamater, but most of the damage will be from the bigger hole and more shrapnel being left in the target.
May 17, 2018 12:27 pm
David
The rough energy is equal-ish in both directions, but the force of the bullet on the target will be far, far, FAR more than the recoil of the weapon.
The energy of recoil is dampened by the mass of the gun itself, the friction coefficients of the locking system, the ergonomics of the weapon and how the force transfers to the shooter, and a few other factors. Thus how you can have firearms with only a few foot-pounds of recoil.
The bullet, on the other hand, is for one thing concentrated in a smaller area, thus for the energy is concentrated and gives it much higher foot-pounds. Bullets also have much less friction working against them since they are only passing through air and modern bullets are designed with this in mind, ie. Spitzer, low drag metal, smooth, etc.
All of this to say - recoil rarely exceeds double digits foot-pounds in a handgun whereas the energy of the bullet is measured in the several hundreds of foot-pounds at least.
May 17, 2018 1:00 pm
Doug
Damn good discussion !!
January 11, 2018 7:26 pm
Eric Hung
Thanks Doug!
January 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Jason
Ray, I think we're over thinking it, yes placement is key but look at it this way. Poke the palm of your hand with your pointer finger, That;s the FMJ. Now punch the palm of your hand. that's the HP. . That's the energy transfer. A FMJ is a pinpoint of force, the HP once expanded puts a larger amount if force because it doesn't just pass thru like a FMJ.
I'm not saying a FMJ can't take down an assailant when a perfect shot is fired, but in a altercation because of adrenaline rush you might be slightly off. That's where the extra energy transfer may help you out.
A fist to the chest is better than a finger to the chest.
April 30, 2017 7:39 pm
Dan
I always carry a ruger plc11 380 with FMJ ammo. Sometimes I think shooters just don't think. They see all the different hollow point hydro shock etc and bite on it like bait. on a low caliber 380 etc. the last thing you want is for that bullet to do mis spread . . Penetrate and make the kill. Dan Ret. UASF
June 2, 2018 2:05 pm
Burp Gunner
The companies need to start making jacketed soft flat tip amminition en masse' That would mean the Bubba Diet Root Beer crowd afford something reasonably effective in home defense, too.. Also Remington ammunition quality control has failed me twice recently. of 200 JHP 9mm Luger rounds purchased, ten were defective upon inspection. Privi Partizan, PMC, Federal, and Fiocchi donot have this problem. also.
Question: is expanding metal jacket ammunition[EMJ] a good choice for defense, too?
February 25, 2017 1:58 pm
Eric Hung
Hey Burp, I haven't had experience with EMJ's. What gun were you using that didn't like the Rem ammo?
February 25, 2017 6:13 pm
Dominic Licavoli
A lot of great points here. Both rounds have advantages and disadvantages. If you have a threat that is using concealment a fmj round would be better depending on the concealment. I like alternating my rounds. So my magazines contain fmj and jacketed rounds alternating every other round. Best of both worlds because threats will not always stand out in front of you. Just food for thought. Not trying to be right.
June 18, 2016 5:25 pm
ehung
Thanks for the insight Dominic...I've heard of that method for shotgun but never for pistol!
June 20, 2016 8:15 am
Rick in MI
Dominic, while I don't necessarily disagree with your logic, before ANYONE staggers their ammo (FMJ, JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc.) I STRONGLY suggest that they first test a few boxes of these exact ammos in the same order.. After testing this way, they then should load their magazines the same way using ammo from the exact same "lot" they've tested -- and if necessary test from these exact same boxes also. The reason is that a lot of semiautomatics (especially the smaller calibers) can jam rather easily -- either before, after, or during a shot.. While this is never an issue with my Colt 1911 in 45acp or my Sig Sauer in 9mm, the guns I'm most likely to have in my pocket or waist (a Seecamp .32acp or a Sig Sauer P232 in .380) both can be somewhat picky on ammo. (And my Seecamp only shoots 3 brands of JHP.) Because of this, I load these guns only with ammo that I know they like... and even then I still load only with lots I've previously tested..
I should also add that my SHTF car gun is a cheap Russian Makarov that shoots every .9x18mm round I can find to put in it, along with shorter (9x17mm) .380 rounds, if necessary. (And, frankly it will cycle a 9mm Parabellum/Luger round also, but I've never felt the urge to see if it would shoot one...mostly because I'm concerned the higher pressures of 9mm might break the old firing pin. BUT, if SHTF truly, and a bad guy was coming at me, I would have no problem dropping a 9mm round into the chamber if I thought 1 shot would put him down!)
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48 Leave a Reply
The fact that this is even a conversation in today’s world is laughable and pathetic. JHP are more lethal and better than FMJ for self defense END OF STORY. Anyone in this comment section or the world who thinks otherwise is an idiot and has no business carrying a firearm. Even though it’s not the majority, the fact that there is a sizable amount of people in today’s world that carry FMJ over JHP shows how much stupidity and ignorance there is in the gun community, especially when all the empirical data says otherwise. A JHP has way less chance of passing through and hitting an innocent bystander and as explained in this article will create a bigger wound channel causing more damage/bleeding, and will put a would-be attacker down quicker and more efficiently. A lot of people in this comment section and the gun community need to educate themselves because an FMJ will always be inferior to a JHP for self-defense and the only people that carry FMJ as far as I’m concerned are broke/cheap asses who don’t wanna spend the money for a quality JHP. Great article by the author and hopefully the knuckleheads listen and carry JHP for self-defense and keep the FMJ on the target range where it belongs.
Yes, but FMJs are so much cheaper than hollow point. I don't think there's truly anyone out there that thinks that FMJs are better. It's just all people can afford, but especially these days when we're in an economic recession.
Lousy definition of FMJ vs Hollow points. Never addressed the ergonomic and nuts and bolts.
The Article was written for the new guys to carrying(including me) Write your own if this isn’t good enough for you.
Was just fine
I use full metal jacket ammunition for personal protection in my 45 and 9mm. I have two reasons. First, the FMJ rounds provide a more reliable feed in my two carry firearms. I want my semi-automatic to be semi-automatic, not manually operated. Second, they do, in tests I have seen and tests I have conducted, provide better penetration. The bullet has to reach the vitals (heart, brain, lungs), or at least break bones (spine, thigh, or humerus for example) that will incapacitate an assailant.
Thank you, for your info. I recently purchased a Taurus "2 matte blk Carbon steel Taurus 38 snub nose and have it loaded presently loaded with fmg bronze 38 special ammunition. I appreciate it.
Thanks for this article!
If hollow points are so great why dont big game hunters use them?
I would imagine because hollow points are designed to penetrate human skin, which is relatively thin compared so something like a hog, or moose, or elk, or….. well, you get the idea. Against thicker skinned game, penetration and expansion could become an issue.
Hollow points dump energy quickly. Does more damage and bullet stops quicker not going through the target and worrying about what is behind it. When hunting big game, you are not worried about what's behind the shot. You also don't want to tear up the meat. Hollow points, much larger wound cavity. Typically big game uses soft point bullets which is balance mid range expansion and going through tougher skin.
I'm not a gun guy, I'm just interested in the science behind Many things.
Thank you for this informative article written from a very neutral POV.
Do you mean to tell me that A "Full Metal Jacket" is not a a type of clothing that Knights use to wear during the middle ages?
I use FMJ ammo in my .380, 9 mm and .45. Why? Because I've found the ones I use to be the most reliable feeding rounds in my pistols. To date, I haven't had to use any of my pistols for self defense, but I do want it to reliably feed that second (or third or fourth, or whatever it takes) round. Clearing a jam when my life depends on it is not something I want to have to do.
I've been shot with 9 mm 115gr FMJ. While it was just a flesh wound, it felt like getting hit with a hammer full force. I was still able to function just fine, It didn't hurt from the adrenaline. When I got worked on, I started feeling it, but by that time I was pumped full of dilated. .... LONG STORY SHORT.. FMJ is effective only in effective locations. If I put two rounds in your chest and one in your head. You wont know the difference
This may seem like an easy answer but would you train with the same grain weight you carry? How much different would 124gr fmj handle compared to 124gr jhp? Not saying I'd never shot jhp's but if FMJ is half the cost (or less) does using the same grain weight help?
It’s good to know very few people are as well trained as CAG. They’d be deadly if only given blue darts.
It seems pretty clear that if we’re talking about shooting soft tissue, and inflicting max damage while minimizing over penetration, clearly hollow points are superior. Not to say that under certain circumstances maybe a FMJ might have been more suited-ie, heavy clothing, longer range, barriers, etc. Unfortunately,, none of us knows in advance the barriers we may encounter, the exact circumstances, or the wardrobe choices of our potential aggressor. So as a general rule, for CC, HP is best- assuming you’ve tested your weapon with them and it works flawlessly. Anyone saying FMJ rounds are ineffective is a fool. I’ve seen what FMJ rounds do to a persons body, and it’s not anything anyone would be able to ignore or fight through, atleast without substantially decreased effectiveness. But given the choice, for CC, I’d generally go w HP-max wound channel for quicker knockdown.
Hornady fixed that years ago with the poly insert. Gives FMJ performance and feed characteristics with forced hollowpoint performance - can't be clogged by clothing and such. Critical Defense for short barrels (tested thru a 3" barrel) and Critical Duty for full-sized. zMy local PD carries Critical Duty...
Oh come on...I have seen dozens of movies where the hero gets shot in the shoulder, the most complex joint in the body, with almost full use of his arm within the same hour. You know they aren't that bad!
For self-defense, you can't beat a Hallow Point. However, if your gun dislikes Hallow Points, then full metal jackets are the way to go. Full metal jackets cost less for practice. There is no difference when shooting practice and self-defense. There is better penetration, and they will get the job done. However, always be aware of what lies beyond your target because there's a greater chance for a through-and-through. My Glock 27 hates Hallow Points. Therefore, I use FMJ's a lot, and I've never had a problem handling issues. The only useless gun and ammo is the one left at home locked away in the gun safe.
I'm amazed you managed to misspell 'hollow' three times. Secondly, I haven't ever been in a self-defense situation, but I feel as if your comment saying: "There is no difference when shooting practice and self-defense." is just a completely false statement. When practicing you are afforded the luxury of taking time to get on target, standing still (or whatever drills you like to do), and fire your weapon. After it's all done you sit there and reload your magazines while laughing and having a good time with your buddies. That's simply not reality when it comes to self-defense and you have adrenaline rushing as well as several racing thoughts.
I dont think he meant "practice vs self defense" in reference to behavior...Hes speaking about practice rounds (FMJ) vs self defense rounds (hollow points)
My last thought...I've never found a bullet I want to be on the receiving end of.
I will say this.... a hollowpoint has a better chance of snagging on the lip of a feed ramp. That goes the same for flat FMJ. Now I've put thousands if not hundreds of thousands downrange... an FMJ has its advantages when it comes to barriers and armor or deep penetration...even making two holes, but Hollowpoint can make a hole twice its size, drop more kinetic energy, and make less worry of the person behind the target... What I know is they both have a purpose and both have similar but different skill sets. Both are effective...and both do a job. For me though its FMJ all the way. Over penetration in pistol cal shouldn't be much if a concern (CQ Rifle is different). And I prefer a reliable always make a hole solution, even if it may not be the most ideal for some situations.
I disagree the Military use FMJ because of the Hauge and Geneve agreements, actually the USA never signed these agreements yet the armed forces use FMJ and let me explain why. FMJ has better penetration than HP; thus, in a gun fight, it is esier to hit a penson hiding behind a car's door or other type of barriers, even FMJ cause more damage when aperson is using an armor vest. Better penetration help pass through more layers of clothes and reach vital organs, including the spinal cord, in which case the person will fall right on the spot. FMJ have better accuracy than HP and a hit is a lot better than a miss. The military know all the benefits of FMJ, that is why they preferr it over HP, not becasuse the agreements I mentioned, so trust the experts and tho not the ammo companies that just want your money.
I’ve carried ball hollow points are both legal , only one tho g matters. Shot placement shot placement SHOT PLACEMENT ! I do find ball to be more accreted don’t get me wrong t as well hollow points leave larger holes and wind tracts So spend the money buy all the different brands of hollow points from. Blazer liberty is a very accurate. Round. I attribute. To its speed they shoot very well from my para ordnance ported made in Canada and x3 mod2 shoots them well toon have some 90s hornady +p that is too hot and all I’ve the place goes through 2 filled 5 gallon jugs and a Birmingham phone book ! Just my 2’ cents. Also unless they fixed it the Golden
Saber loses its jacket, black talons and I know they have made better , liberty civil defence Goes about 1/2 to 3/4 into you amd acts like a grenade! Black talons although old school open CONSISTENTLY AND EVERY TIME ! I time to time load them but never chamber one to prevent nose shoving up and increasing pressures. So my warning shot is always ball ammo them my first shot would be if that terrible moment happens in my life. I’m sure it will be different than tv . But I do refuse to be a victim !!!!!!!
Get training
I had issues with .40 original black talons. Even with polished feed ramps they would sometimes snag which made their expansion/ripping attributes worthless. The 9mm didn't as much, but the .40s were unusually bad at this...never tried the new rangers though. Now as far as civil liberties...they haven't jammed much in my 9mm glock. At rifle speeds they are fabulous on soft light targets. With a layer of tshirt the light tangible does incredible damage, but with any cover or light armor they are useless. It's why I personally choose m/39b or 124gr fmj. I know I can always rely on them.
Also what's a warning shot...you must watch too many movies. If your gun is drawn..its on target and firing...
Im in Brasil and I use .40 of the only manufacturer of ammo here.
FMJ gave me 2 FTF after 150 rounds ( even with polished ramps!).
JHP never gave me problems, I fired 200 rounds and not one misfire.
Use what you want, but practice on the range first.
As a former NYPD officer and I came across two suspects who are both shot with a 9 mm FMJ. One had three shots to the stomach area and buttocks station telling me he been shot. The second was a gentleman who shot 19 times with a 9 mm FMJ and still continue to resist with his AR 15. I’ve been shot at many a times with a 9 mm and it did not puncture my squad windshield. I can say with a high degree of certainty fmj rounds do not have any purpose for use in the field.
I call BS on your story and I also call BS on your claim that 9mm never punctured your windshield. Caliber and bullet type wars are meaningless for handgun platforms and no matter how many times even the ammo manufacturers try telling us this (based on, you know, decades of testing with millions of shots fired and extensive analysis of FBI statistics) we still have ignorant chumps like you spreading misinformation and stories.
What do you know? ...I think, if anything, this illustrates different experiences, different results, via different situations (venue, weather, garments being worn, AOA, etc., etc. etc.). To declare somebody else is full of it despite years of his own experience ought to have you consider versus judge folks, and finally, it is actually YOU, these self-proclaimed, one-stop-shop-providers that are dangerous to the field as the affects of these conditions are so dynamic, with countless "what ifs", that anyone that thinks they have digital knowledge via granularity like this ought to be shunned and dismissed at the onset...
Guessing and hoping you never run into an M39/b.
Well I don't have any experience with my 9mm, I have some experience with firearms because I have hunted since I was 12 and have tried all the different big game animal hunts in my state which we only have moose, white tailed deer, black bear, and here they classify wild turkeys as big game too.
I also hunt cotton tailed rabbits, and ruffed grouse. Any ways I have seen a lot of results from different kinds of bullets from different kinds and calibers of guns. Shot placement is the number 1 thing people should be worried about. If those gentlemen had been hit in a vital area they wouldn't have been there. Not that I would carry fmj but a fmj in the head would be deadly.
If you want to stop a threat with your gun, you need to follow some steps, The shot placement is the first thing that have to think about. The second is tears much tissues as you can, to increase the chance to cause internal bleeding and dropping the blood pressure quickly or hit on CNS. A gun fight probably will not happend in the ideal conditions, because the threat may be on the side, with arm in front of his chest, may be behind a car door or window and wearing heavy clothes. So in my opnion, FMJ is better, because it will penetrate these objects in almost all cases and it will still hit the body.. On the other hand, hollow points may not expand in all cases and it will work as a bad fmj, or it may expand early and not have enough penetration to cause as many tissue tears as possible. But if you find a hollow point ammunition that expands in any kind of situation with absolute certainty, use it. But since I don't know anything like that, I prefer FMJ. Even if the fmj ammunition goes beyond the threat, which is unlikely, and hit someone, the energy is so small that at most it will scratch the skin. Hit the shots is better than worrying if you will use HP or FMJ, because if you think about the collateral damage that will cause if it does not hit the threat, this concern will also exist with HP ammunition. Dr Vicent Di Maio and Dr Martin Flacker have said they have never seen any cases where the victim was killed with HP ammo that would not be killed either by FMJ ammo. The truth is that companies make commercial advertisements for HP ammo as if they were magic or as if they were the best solution, they make beautiful, personalized boxes and sell something that promises to be infallible. The great truth is that they are more expensive, generate more profits and that lay public buy without thinking twice.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The action is shooting the gun. The force of the bullet hitting the target will be equal to, or more likely, less than the recoil of the gun. There isn't going to be as much energy being transferred to the target as people think.. Most damage will be caused by the holes made by the bullets as opposed to the force transference. HP bullets will transfer a bit more power to the target by increased friction and expanding the force of the shot over a greater diamater, but most of the damage will be from the bigger hole and more shrapnel being left in the target.
The rough energy is equal-ish in both directions, but the force of the bullet on the target will be far, far, FAR more than the recoil of the weapon.
The energy of recoil is dampened by the mass of the gun itself, the friction coefficients of the locking system, the ergonomics of the weapon and how the force transfers to the shooter, and a few other factors. Thus how you can have firearms with only a few foot-pounds of recoil.
The bullet, on the other hand, is for one thing concentrated in a smaller area, thus for the energy is concentrated and gives it much higher foot-pounds. Bullets also have much less friction working against them since they are only passing through air and modern bullets are designed with this in mind, ie. Spitzer, low drag metal, smooth, etc.
All of this to say - recoil rarely exceeds double digits foot-pounds in a handgun whereas the energy of the bullet is measured in the several hundreds of foot-pounds at least.
Damn good discussion !!
Thanks Doug!
Ray, I think we're over thinking it, yes placement is key but look at it this way. Poke the palm of your hand with your pointer finger, That;s the FMJ. Now punch the palm of your hand. that's the HP. . That's the energy transfer. A FMJ is a pinpoint of force, the HP once expanded puts a larger amount if force because it doesn't just pass thru like a FMJ.
I'm not saying a FMJ can't take down an assailant when a perfect shot is fired, but in a altercation because of adrenaline rush you might be slightly off. That's where the extra energy transfer may help you out.
A fist to the chest is better than a finger to the chest.
I always carry a ruger plc11 380 with FMJ ammo. Sometimes I think shooters just don't think. They see all the different hollow point hydro shock etc and bite on it like bait. on a low caliber 380 etc. the last thing you want is for that bullet to do mis spread . . Penetrate and make the kill. Dan Ret. UASF
The companies need to start making jacketed soft flat tip amminition en masse' That would mean the Bubba Diet Root Beer crowd afford something reasonably effective in home defense, too.. Also Remington ammunition quality control has failed me twice recently. of 200 JHP 9mm Luger rounds purchased, ten were defective upon inspection. Privi Partizan, PMC, Federal, and Fiocchi donot have this problem. also.
Question: is expanding metal jacket ammunition[EMJ] a good choice for defense, too?
Hey Burp, I haven't had experience with EMJ's. What gun were you using that didn't like the Rem ammo?
A lot of great points here. Both rounds have advantages and disadvantages. If you have a threat that is using concealment a fmj round would be better depending on the concealment. I like alternating my rounds. So my magazines contain fmj and jacketed rounds alternating every other round. Best of both worlds because threats will not always stand out in front of you. Just food for thought. Not trying to be right.
Thanks for the insight Dominic...I've heard of that method for shotgun but never for pistol!
Dominic, while I don't necessarily disagree with your logic, before ANYONE staggers their ammo (FMJ, JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc.) I STRONGLY suggest that they first test a few boxes of these exact ammos in the same order.. After testing this way, they then should load their magazines the same way using ammo from the exact same "lot" they've tested -- and if necessary test from these exact same boxes also. The reason is that a lot of semiautomatics (especially the smaller calibers) can jam rather easily -- either before, after, or during a shot.. While this is never an issue with my Colt 1911 in 45acp or my Sig Sauer in 9mm, the guns I'm most likely to have in my pocket or waist (a Seecamp .32acp or a Sig Sauer P232 in .380) both can be somewhat picky on ammo. (And my Seecamp only shoots 3 brands of JHP.) Because of this, I load these guns only with ammo that I know they like... and even then I still load only with lots I've previously tested..
I should also add that my SHTF car gun is a cheap Russian Makarov that shoots every .9x18mm round I can find to put in it, along with shorter (9x17mm) .380 rounds, if necessary. (And, frankly it will cycle a 9mm Parabellum/Luger round also, but I've never felt the urge to see if it would shoot one...mostly because I'm concerned the higher pressures of 9mm might break the old firing pin. BUT, if SHTF truly, and a bad guy was coming at me, I would have no problem dropping a 9mm round into the chamber if I thought 1 shot would put him down!)